The Soviet Union was one of the most murderous, criminal regimes to ever exist on this planet. Despite falling apart in the early nineties, it is greatly responsible for most of the conflicts we see to this day. It is important to understand the contribution of the Soviet Union to global conflict as Russia today continues to create instability in the world. In addition, it is good to note and remember what the Soviet Union did during it's existence on Earth. Especially considering the following:
Russian president Vladimir Putin considers the collapse of the Soviet Union in 1991 as one of the greatest catastrophes of the 20th century. His attitude is shared by many other Russians who came of age during the twilight of the Soviet Union. These people are running the country now, and they are not afraid to express nostalgia for the lost glories of the Soviet era. But the kids who came of age after 1991, are less impressed with the Soviet era, and not automatically ant-American. But for another generation, a Cold War mentality will live on among the Russian ruling class.A recent survey found that 68 percent of Russians believed the breakup of the Soviet Union was a mistake, and 51 percent would vote to restore the Soviet Union. Similar surveys found that in some former parts of the Soviet Union, lots of people were in favor of re-joining the Soviet Union (45 percent in Ukraine, 36 percent in Belarus.) - Strategy Page
Thankfully, the Soviet Union is gone, but some of the goals surely remain. They were not able to crush the US on their own, but I wonder if they are supporting regimes in Iran, Venezuela and North Korea in the hope that they can destabilize the US in ways that they were never able to. Or is it just that their decision-making is simply related to money? Money was the main reason for Russia selling out Sanctions against Iraq. So enjoy this 'short' list of Russian/Soviet atrocities. (Feel free to start you own list on the US and then lets compare body counts.)
Let's just call this version one. There are many items not listed here, so feel free to add more in the comments.
Note: this is now Version II, published on 27 February 2007.
So now for the trip down memory lane:
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Interference in the Chinese Civil War
- Initially aided BOTH Sides
- Invaded and occupied Manchuria at end of WWII
- Theft of all of Manchuria's industrial Infrastructure
In the last month of the World War II in East Asia, Soviet forces launched the mammoth Operation August Storm in Manchuria. This operation destroyed the fighting capability of the Kwantung Army and left the USSR in occupation of all of Manchuria at the end of the war. Consequently, they took the surrender of the 700,000 Japanese troops still stationed in the region. They seized the arms of these surrendering Japanese and handed them over to the Communist Party of China, providing them with the initial military means to face the Nationalists in open warfare. Later in the year Chiang Kai-shek came to the painful realization that he lacked the resources to prevent a CPC takeover of Manchuria following the scheduled Soviet departure, he therefore made a deal with the Russians to delay their withdrawal until he had moved enough of his best-trained men and modern material into the region. Nationalist troops were then airlifted by the United States to occupy key cities in North China, while the countryside was already dominated by the Chinese Communists. The Soviets spent the extra time systematically dismantling the entire Manchurian industrial plant (worth up to 2 billion dollars) and shipping it back to their war-ravaged Motherland. - Wikipedia
Artificial Famine (Genocide) in Ukraine - 1932 -1933
(artificial famine of 1932-33, which caused upwards of 7 million deaths in Ukraine)
In an open letter to Mikhail Gorbachev in August 1987, the veteran dissident Vyachaslav Chornovil wrote, "The biggest and most infamous blank spot in the Soviet history of Ukraine is the hollow silence for over 50 years about the genocide of the Ukrainian nation organized by Stalin and his henchmen ... The Great Famine of 1932-33, which took millions of human lives. In one year - 1933 - my people lost more than throughout all of World War II, which ravaged our land." - Soviet Crimes Remain Unpunished
The Soviets kept the famine secret. (All the time, exporting food products.)The famine resulted from Stalin's collectivisation programme and ruthless grain requisitions, but experts are divided on whether it was intentional.Some allege Stalin used mass starvation as a weapon to eradicate the Ukrainian peasantry, while simultaneously arresting or executing the Ukrainian intelligentsia.Others say the claim cannot be proved. [note: Well taken in context with their other-proven behavior, I think we can pretty well place this in the column of Intentional. This it the work of socialists to deny these crimes despite clear evidence that Stalin had the borders to the Ukraine closed to prevent people from leaving and food from getting in. And what was the reason for keeping it a secret?]Millions died during the 1932-1933 famine - a quarter of Ukraine's population at the time, according to some estimates. - BBC
More here.
Stalin's Intervention to ensure Hitler's Election in Germany:
During the critical 1932 German elections, he forbid the German Communists from collaborating with the Social Democrats. These parties together gained more votes than Hitler and could have prevented him from becoming Chancellor. - Wikipedia
Stalin purged his diplomatic apparatus of Jews in preparation for signing his “non-aggression” pact with Hitler. - National Review
Alliance with Hitler / Nazi Germany
The Soviet Union had Hitler's back at the start of World War II by agreeing to split Europe amongst themselves drawing a line right through Poland. (Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact)
It is common knowledge that Nazi Germany attacked Poland (on 1 September 1939) but not so common knowledge that the Soviet Union attacked Poland from the East. (On 17 September 1939)
Support of Nazi Germany
From the signing of the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact in August, 1939 through almost the end of the first half of 1941, Stalin and the USSR fed and equipped Hitler and Germany as Germany invaded Western Europe and then attacked Great Britain by air. - Wikipedia
Partially Responsible for World War II
According to the Historian Richard Pipes, the Communist states share some responsibility for World War II. Both Hitler and Mussolini used the Soviet Union as a model for their own totalitarian states and Hitler privately expressed that Stalin was a "genius". In turn, Stalin expressed desire for another great war that would leave his enemies weakened and allow Soviet expansion. He allowed the testing and production of German weapons that were forbidden by the Versailles Treaty to occur on Soviet territory. - Wikipedia
Soviet-Finnish Winter War
The Soviet Union attacked Finland to take land that the Finns declined to cede to the Soviets voluntarily.
Creation of Soviet 'puppet' States after WWII:
- East Germany
- Poland
- Hungary
- Bulgaria
- Czechoslovakia
- Romania
Forced the deportation to the Soviet Union of thousands:
After the end of the Second World War some 100,000 people were expelled from Finland over the eastern border into the Soviet Union - thus, a considerably larger number than was deported to Nazi Germany.The terms of the peace agreement required that Finland had to return to the Soviet Union some 56,000 Ingrian, 44,000 Soviet and over 2,500 German prisoners of war. If these terms were not met, the Soviet government would refuse to return the many Finnish prisoners of war to their own country.The return of the Ingrians was not spoken about in postwar Finland. One Finnish commentator has remarked: "During the whole time the Soviet Union existed, people didn't speak about those Ingrians that had been sent back. This return of the ethnic Finns after the war didn't exist. Not until the end of the 80s did the matter attract attention when books and memoirs were published. " - - A Step at a Time
More 'abuse' of Ingrians:
The family of Anna Ruotsi boarded a train in Oulu. Once over the border, the doors were shut, and nobody was allowed to leave. "People started crying. Where are they taking us?" Ruotsi remembers.
They did not go to their home village. The family got off the freight train in the district of Yaroslav and ended up on a collective farm. "We worked, but we were not paid anything. There was great hunger there. To make ends meet, the family sold their watches, bicycles, and other belongings.
After two years on the collective farm, the family moved to Estonia. While waiting for a train in Leningrad, the father went to see the home village 35 kilometres away. "Everything had been burned." All that was left of the old house was the well.In Estonia, Anna Ruotsi’s life went on. She even found an Ingrian husband, who had been in the Finnish army during the war. His return to the Soviet Union had meant imprisonment for ten years. Ruotsi and her wife followed their adult children to Finland in 1990. - Helsingin Sanomat
Continued occupation of Iran after WWII
Division of Germany and creation of East Germany (German Democratic Republic)
The Soviet Union accomplished what Hitler wanted to; Occupation of a good portion of Europe.
Brutal occupation of Germany and other territories:
Once a year, aging Red Army veterans who fought in the battle for Berlin gather in that city’s suburb of Treptower Park, where some 5,000 of their comrades are buried. But as Jason Cowley of the Guardian reported, one local refers to it as “the site of the unknown rapist.” No doubt there are others who share this sentiment: During that first year of Soviet occupation in 1945, more than 100,000 women in Berlin were raped. Combined with the German women caught in Pomerania, Silesia, and East Prussia during the mass exodus, the number of rape victims soars to roughly 2 million. Many of them subsequently committed suicide. - a Contest of Brutality
Cutoff of Supply Lines to West Berlin
Soviet Union Blockades West Berlin's road and rail connections, cutting off supply lines forcing allies to supply the city form the air in the great Berlin Airlift that went on for over a year.
June 1953 uprising Massacre in East Berlin
Occupation of:
- Latvia (Including mass deportations/"Population Transfer")
- Lithuania (Including mass deportations/"Population Transfer")
- Estonia (Including mass deportations/"Population Transfer") - " Destruction of the Estonian State"
Soviet invasion of Korea
- Creation of North Korea
- Prevented UN elections in North Korea which were held as part of the UN plan to reunify Korea, originally agreed to by the Soviet Union.
- Soviet-backed North Korea attacked South Korea in 1950.Creation of the puppet state of the Kurdish Republic of Mahabad in Northern Iran.
Vietnam:
More Vietnam:1949 — Chinese communists reach the northern border of Indochina. The Viet Minh drive the French from the border region and begin to receive large amounts of weapons from the Soviet Union and China. The weapons transform the Viet Minh from an irregular small-scale insurgency into a conventional army.The Soviet Union, along with China, supplied North Vietnam with weaponry and other material throughout the war. Soviet pilots acted as training cadre and may even have flown combat missions as "volunteers". Other USSR operatives tested their SVD rifle in combat conditions prior to official American entry as well as operating surface-to-air missile batteries in North Vietnam. - Wikipedia
Invasion of:The truth about Vietnam that revisionist historians conveniently forget is that the United States had not lost when we withdrew in 1973. In fact, we grabbed defeat from the jaws of victory two years later when Congress cut off the funding for South Vietnam that had allowed it to continue to fight on its own. Over the four years of Nixon's first term, I had cautiously engineered the withdrawal of the majority of our forces while building up South Vietnam's ability to defend itself.My colleague and friend Henry Kissinger, meanwhile, had negotiated a viable agreement between North and South Vietnam, which was signed in January 1973. It allowed for the United States to withdraw completely its few remaining troops and for the United States and the Soviet Union to continue funding their respective allies in the war at a specified level. Each superpower was permitted to pay for replacement arms and equipment. Documents released from North Vietnamese historical files in recent years have proved that the Soviets violated the treaty from the moment the ink was dry, continuing to send more than $1 billion a year to Hanoi.The United States barely stuck to the allowed amount of military aid for two years, and that was a mere fraction of the Soviet contribution.Yet during those two years, South Vietnam held its own courageously and respectably against a better-bankrolled enemy. Peace talks continued between the North and the South until the day in 1975 when Congress cut off U.S. funding. The Communists walked out of the talks and never returned. Without U.S. funding, South Vietnam was quickly overrun. We saved a mere $297 million a year and in the process doomed South Vietnam, which had been ably fighting the war without our troops since 1973. - Gateway Pundit
- Soviets invade Czechoslavakia (1968) "Prague Spring"
- Soviets invade Afghanistan (1979)
Heavy handed-ness:
- Put down of uprising in Hungary (1956)
- Put down of riots in Georgia(1989)
- Harsh Prison sentences for those caught attempting to escape the Soviet Union:
From a book published in Finland it can be concluded that between 1945-1981 Finnish authorities were sending back a majority of political refugees from the USSR, who were trying to flee to the West through Finland, this was done by the authorities of their own free will, and was not forced on them.However, there weren't many of those kind of of cases. Juha Pohjonen, author of recently published book "Ei armoa Suomen selkänahasta" ("No Mercy At Finland's Expense ") dug through the archives and counted 117 persons who were sent back to the USSR. Pohjonen told Gazeta that a majority of them got harsh sentences of 10-15 years of prison or gulag. In one instance a death sentence was executed, some people who were sent back committed suicide."It's not the scale of this behaviour that's important - what matters is acquiring a moral perspective on the Finnish politics of those days," Pohjonen asserts. - A Step at a Time
A somewhat different, yet still critical view on the deportations here.)
Ogaden War (Somalia and Ethiopia)
- Initially armed BOTH Sides
The U.S.S.R., finding itself supplying both sides of a war, attempted to mediate a ceasefire. When their efforts failed, the Soviets abandoned Somalia. All aid to Siad Barre's regime was halted, while arms shipments to Ethiopia were increased. Soviet military aid, only second in magnitude to the October 1973 gigantic resupplying of Syrian forces during the Yom Kippur war, plus Soviet advisors flooded into the country along with around 15,000 Cuban combat troops. Other Communist countries offered assistance: the People's Democratic Republic of Yemen offered military assistance and North Korea helped train a "People's Militia". As the scale of Communist assistance became clear in November 1977, Somalia broke diplomatic relations with the U.S.S.R. and expelled all Soviet citizens from the country. - Wikipedia
There was so much Political Repression in the Soviet Union that it needs it's own index page in Wikipedia.
Soviet Nuclear Activities:
Greatest Manmade Explosion in Human History -Tsar Bomba - Wilipedia
Chernobyl
Abandoned Nuclear-powered navigational Lighthouses - Bellona
"Soviets Secretly Tried to Blame U.S. for AIDS--CIA" Reuters (09/30/93)
Militarization of Third World Countries:Langley, Va.--For more than five years, the former Soviet Union attempted to blame the AIDS virus on a plot by U.S. military scientists, according to newly declassified CIA documents. The papers reported that the Soviets launched a campaign in 1983 aiming to tie the emergence of AIDS to American biological weapons research. The disinformation was circulated in 25 different languages in over 200 publications, as well as in posters, leaflets, and radio broadcasts, in more than 80 countries before the campaign was finally abandoned by the Soviets, according to a study cited by the CIA in the documents. The Soviets dropped the campaign in 1988 when the United States refused to cooperate with them on a research program on AIDS, which was by then spreading in the U.S.S.R., said the CIA article. The Soviet campaign was apparently retaliation for the Reagan administration's claims of Soviet-produced "yellow rain," or yellow traces found on vegetation due to a Soviet biological weapon.Reproduction of the above excerpt is encouraged; however, copies may not be sold, and the CDC Clearinghouse should be cited as the source of this information. Copyright 1993, Information, Inc., Bethesda, MD
Arming and instigation of Islamic radicals (in the '70s.)
Theft and reuse of tombstones (Removed from graves in Finnish Karelia, resurfaced, sent to Estonia.) (More on Finnish cemetery desecration here.)
Human Rights in the Soviet Union:
The Soviet authorities orchestrated the death and deportation of millions of their own citizens, to eliminate domestic opposition to the Soviet Union. It includes the persecution of members of nations incorporated into the USSR which since the fall of the USSR live in states independent of the Russian Federation.While it is indisputable that USSR Government brought death and suffering to millions of its population, the legal use of the term genocide as inappropriate because international law on genocide is based on the Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide and the Soviet Union made sure that the drafting of the convention excluded genocides based on social class and class struggle ideology. Nevertheless the term genocide is used by many respected historians, especially with respect to the Holodomor. This usage is often motivated by the fact that, e.g., ethnicity-targeted population transfer in the Soviet Union, while arguably lacking genocidal purposes, led to millions of deaths due to inflicted hardships. - Wiki
Third-World Standard for Quality of Life:
In the Soviet Union in 1989 there was rationing of meat and sugar. The average intake of red meat for a Soviet citizen was half of what it had been for a subject of the Czar in 1913. Blacks in apartheid South Africa owned more cars per capita. The only area of consumption in which the Soviets excelled was the ingestion of hard liquor. Two-thirds of the households had no hot water, and a third had no running water at all. According to the government paper, Izvestia, a typical working class family of four was forced to live for 8 years in a single 8x8 foot room, before marginally better accommodation became available. The housing shortage was so acute that at all times 17% of Soviet families had to be physically separated for want of adequate space. A third of the hospitals had no running water and the bribery of doctors and nurses to get decent medical attention and even amenities like blankets in Soviet hospitals was not only common, but routine. Only 15 percent of Soviet youth were able to attend institutions of higher learning compared to 34 percent in the U.S. The average welfare mother in the United States received more income in a month, than the average Soviet worker could earn in a year. - Wikipedia
Raping of the Environment:During my first trip, in 1984, I found the state of most structures shocking. One of my fellow travelers, an electrical contractor, pointed repeatedly to jury rigged exterior wiring not contained in conduit. This was in major public buildings in Moscow and Leningrad. Each successive visit has seen some of same buildings continue to deteriorate with little of no maintenance.The causes of this are several fold. First, much of the physical plant in Western Russia was destroyed or damaged during the Great Patriotic War. Replacement of structures or repairs had to be accomplished in a compressed time frame and quality of both design and craftsmanship undoubtedly suffered. Second, the West rapidly recovered from the war while Russia did not. The US emerged economically strong and via the Marshal Plan rebuilt Western Europe. The USSR believed it had to chose between "Guns and Bricks" it chose guns. A Russian friend once joked that the lights in his stairwell hadn't worked for years because the Soviets felt the resources were better used for "a hundred Kalashnikov magazines or maybe some parts for a T-62 Tank in Afghanistan."The end result of all this was a lot of poorly constructed, poorly maintained buildings. - La Russophobe
One example is the gradual disappearance of the Aral Sea and a similar diminishing of the Caspian Sea because of the diversion of the rivers that fed them. Another is the pollution of the Black Sea, the Baltic Sea, and the unique freshwater environment of Lake Baikal. Many of the rivers were polluted; several, like the Vistula and Oder rivers in Poland, were virtually ecologically dead. Over 70% of the surface water in the Soviet Union was polluted. In 1988 only 30% of the sewage in the Soviet Union was treated properly. Established health standards for air pollution was exceeded by ten times or more in 103 cities in the Soviet Union in 1988. The air pollution problem was even more severe in Eastern Europe. It caused a rapid growth in lung cancer, forest die-back, and damage to buildings and cultural heritages. According to official sources, 58 percent of total agricultural land of the former Soviet Union was affected by salinization, erosion, acidity, or waterlogging. - Wikipedia
Disgraceful Handling of Nuclear Waste:
Nuclear waste was dumped in the Sea of Japan, the Arctic Ocean, and in locations in the Far East. It was revealed in 1992 that in the city of Moscow there were 636 radioactive toxic waste sites and 1,500 in St. Petersburg. - Wikipedia
Also:
- Murder of the Czar and immediate family
- Restriction of movement within the Soviet Union (Internal Passports)
- Forced Labor Camps (Gulags)
- Stalin's purges
- Command Economy
- Collectivization
- Suppression of Religion
- Destruction of churches
- Damage to the environment
- Nuclear and other waste.
- Spread of small weapons
- Destruction of cultural heritage
- Constant revision of historical documents
- Suppressed research
Here is a handy Desktop Wallpaper summarizing the 62 Million Deaths attributed to Soviet Rule:
You can find it here: The New American Myth
Other Links:
Soviet Child Care - Born in the USSR - Opinion Journal
Back to the USSR - Helsingin Sanomat
Behind the Wheel in the Soviet Union - New York Times
NOTE: This post will be updated/edited on occasion.
NOTE II: Some links are to Wikipedia, which is subject to constant editing both of content as well as links. Information was correct as of the initial posting and may no longer be available. Just consider it an extension of the Soviet tradition of rewriting history!
Many of the events above were either kept secret or the truth was distorted by the Soviet Union. Many facts are still not known today.
Just because The Soviet Union has fallen apart, does not mean that they are still not causing problems, including the following:
- Nuclear poisoning
- Acting like the Soviet Union at the UN Security Council.
- Assisting Iran with its nuclear program. (Even during the 18 years in secret?)
- Selling arms to Iran, knowing that they intend to use them if possible or pass them on to the likes of Hezbollah and others.
- Selling Venezuela military equipment immediately after the US halts all military sales to the country.
16 comments:
sorry Fred but I have read your stuff on FFT and just wanted to check your own site out. DISAPPOINTING. Take the tickets off yourself and get those feet back on earth. While you are at it you might like to compare this list of Soviet activities to a similar list of USA activities. Notice the similarities? Very disappointing blog Fred for one so "international." I think you're a fraud ;)
How fitting of you to post your comments here where I document decades of Soviet mass murder and crimes. It is a perfect example of the blindness of liberals.
How tone-deaf you must be to simply suggest comparing these actions to the US. And no, I don't notice the similarities so why don't you spell them out, especially the one where Soviet citizens were more-likely to be killed by their own Government.
It is also especially dubious of you, coming from Finland, seeing that the Soviets nearly ran over your country as well, but had other things to do and just never got around to doing it.
Come on Fred. This is not difficult. Look at the similarities, particularly with foreign policy.
Over throwing governments.
Supplying and funding Islamic rebels.
Acting as the supreme power in UN (Israel thanks you)
Human Rights Issues (GITMO)
Heavy handed-ness of US citizens and anyone "considered" a threat.
on and n they go.
Now, do you really think people around the world are so stupid as to listen to this BS coming from the mouth of an American and not bring up or at least thik of all these similarities? I mean 2 wrongs don't make a right and for everything they did, you are now making the same mistakes. I mean blaming The USSR in one of your posts for todays Islamic rebels fighting the US is frightening. Do you actually believe this crap yourself? Would it not be closer to blame the US for it seeing as though you trained, armed and funded them in their fight against "The evil empire" and then, when it was over you turned your back and left them. Afghanistan and Iraq, two great examples of it. Now the dogs are biting back. But wait, its the USSR's fault. Sorry.
There are so many holes in your blogs that it is amazing the entire cyber space hasn't fallen through them. I thought I'd seen it all but the USSR being blamed for "The War On Terror" is a new one. Thanks for that.
As for your assumption that I am A Finn, wrong again. I'm Australian, one of you (almost) living in Finland. People like you are trying to hijack my country and it's foreign policy. Scary, thought after Vietnam that we would have learnt.
Fred Fry International? In whose mind Fred? The only thing international about you is the international condemnation of you and your silly biggoted "typical" American opinions. Open your mind Fred.
GITMO? Come on. You can do better than that. We are talking about less than 500 criminals who if captured by most other countries would not be breathing any longer. (There are more refugees in Paris's dungeon and in detention camps in Australia)
Despite all the digging by the lawyers, they are entitled to no rights. No matter, GITMO is being solved. They are no longer trying to catch these people alive.
Anyway comparing any crimes of the US to the Soviet Union is a joke. The Soviet Union was a criminal state. Any bad the US might be doing is an exception to the rule. Take the Koreas. US helped the South. USSR is completely responsible for there even being a North Korea.
"I mean blaming The USSR in one of your posts for todays Islamic rebels fighting the US is frightening. Do you actually believe this crap yourself?"
Don't listen to me. Take it from the Finnish Institute of International Affairs:
"Two concepts are central to the Islamist extremists’ worldview: Jihad – that the extremists take to mean holy war against disbelievers, and Takfir – the act of pronouncing other Muslims to be disbelievers and therefore making them into valid targets of jihad.
This ideology was turned into a global phenomenon through the war against the Soviet occupation of Afghanistan. Islamists were oppressed in numerous Muslim states; marginalizing them from the political process and giving them no way to express their ideology. Denied the ability to act in their own states, many travelled to Afghanistan to take part in the jihad against the Soviets. Many Arab and Muslim states actively supported the jihad financially and politically, both to bolster their own Islamic credentials at home and as a way of allowing devout young men to act on their beliefs in a manner that did not threaten the security of their own states.
When the Soviet Union was defeated, numerous well trained and radicalised fighters, linked by their ideology, dispersed around the world forming the basis of the loosely connected ‘network of networks’ of terrorists we see today." – FIIA Report
http://www.upi-fiia.fi/eng/publications/fiia_reports/
It was the Soviet Union that invaded and ruined Afghanistan and we have been dealing with the fanatics ever since.
"People like you are trying to hijack my country and it's foreign policy."
- Sorry. NO.
I will decline to prove my International pedigree. We can always discuss it in Tampere. I plan to be there in October. Then again, nothing I say appears to hold water with you so why bother wasting time doing so.
"Sorry NO" is the best you can do?
Prove your international pedigree to me with a discussion in Tampere? Well as I live just down the road from Tampere I'd be pleased to share a cup of coffee and listen to your self indulgent BS in October.
BY simplifying and generalizing points such as "The Soviet Union was a criminal state. Any bad the US might be doing is an exception to the rule" only makes me more angry. Why, when you are seemingly educated and coming from a wealthy country with the potential for good, do you have to make yourself and your people sound so simple? So dumb? So arrogant?
This is the reason people around the world are growing to hate America. Your "wrong" is only an "exception to the rule" so WTF, keep doing it. Most of your writings are full of holes and hipocracy so much like that of your leaders. As long as right wing Christians like you continue to speak up and preach your hate, the downward fall of the once mighty USA will only accelerate. My hope is that you don't take the rest of us with you.
Let me guess, your a woman, right?
That's 2 for 2 smart ass. Not Finnish and balls between my legs. Again the quality of your answer comes as no surprise for me. Fred Fry International........ Not even close.
Answer with substance next time fool
Well you sure are in touch with your feelings.
I think I will pass on the meeting. You probably have some rage issues.
"only makes me more angry"
Come on now. You really, seriously going to give the Soviet Union a pass. What about Russia? Have they killed enough journalists yet to get your attention? Trusting Russia is just plain foolish.
" Why, when you are seemingly educated and coming from a wealthy country with the potential for good, do you have to make yourself and your people sound so simple? So dumb? So arrogant?"
We need to sound so simple so that people like you can understand what we are trying to say.
anonymous = 'Punter'
Right.
You're a genius. Actually, no you're not. It's not about giving The USSR or Russia a pass. I despise Communists (leftists, SDP etc) as much as anyone. It is simply the fact that people like you choose to attack countries and ideologies on grounds that the US also use. You don't look at the bigger picture and as a result turn your views and opinions around onto themselves.
I mean you are quoting texts claiming how many Islamic rebels are "marginalised" by their own governments and have turned to fighting "jihad" but fail to mention most of these people come from Saud, Egypt and Jordon all of which are countries (dictatorships) that are being propped up by The US in self interest. Democracy here dictatorship there whatever serves your self interest. Fine but don't be surprised when people want to do bad to you.
You need to start looking at issues from a neutral standpoint, at least to begin with. Then perhaps you'll see the chilling truth that in many ways the differences between what you seemingly love and hate are not that great. In many ways, The US is acting like many great empires of the past. Don't get me wrong, economically and socially in many ways I support your system. It is just in terms of foreign policy and a lack of understanding of international issues that you're being let down. That in turn could bring down the rest of the system that Iso much respect.
Finally the comment about being a woman was piss poor. I hope you don't talk to your wife like that. Some of them have opinions too you know?
Oh, I forgot. I've read Punter's comments too on FTT (he put me on to it) and wrong again. I guess there must be at least 2 Australian men in Finland that think the same about lefties but are equally concerned about the US and it's allies screwing up a golden chance with their foreign policies.
Why the big deal about trying to name your opposition? Sounds like the typical US response though. Isn't that why the name Al-Qaeda was given in the first place? You can rest at ease when you can name the boogie man ;)
"I mean you are quoting texts claiming how many Islamic rebels are "marginalised" by their own governments and have turned to fighting "jihad" but fail to mention most of these people come from Saud, Egypt and Jordon all of which are countries (dictatorships) that are being propped up by The US in self interest. Democracy here dictatorship there whatever serves your self interest. Fine but don't be surprised when people want to do bad to you."
- Well again, this goes back to the Soviets corrupting the system and giving aid to most any corrupt Government. They US then went to play the same game. Do I like it? No. The Soviets fell apart and dropping giving aid away but we still pay. As far as I am concerning all Foreign aid needs to be stopped. (Not just by the US either.) Every time we help a country we give that government a pass in saying that we will help their people. That's one reason I think Africa is still poor.
Don't think for a minute that not helping these governments is going to make the jihad problem go away.
"Why the big deal about trying to name your opposition?"
- I was trying to get a better insight into someone who I was dealing with. There is nothing wrong with being better informed is there? All I had to go on was a couple comments by anonymous and a web hits from the Tampere area. Not much to go on is it? (I guess you could also throw in a visit to Australia as well.)
Fred. Is there anything wrong in the world that is not directly linked to The USSR? As I said, you would struggle to find a bigger anti leftist than my good self but not even I grasp at straws like this.
How is the US support for Egypt (for making peace with Israel) and Saudi (keep the regime happy and get the oil you need) in anyway linked to The USSR? As for Jordan (again after making peace with Israel) it's good to have friends with some say towards Syria and Palestine. It has NOTHING to do with foreign aid. You know that so don't treat me like an idiot.
I also read your take on Hamas and Gaza with interest. Like many in The US, you don't get. As long as you promote democracy and try to spread it across the globe you can't pick and chose when to follow it. As simplistic as it seems, Hamas were democratically elected so support them. It was only a little over a decade ago that Fatah (formerly PLO) were looked upon as evil and the late and great Arafat as a terrorist. He died a Nobel Peace Prize winner because some of us gave him a chance. Now if we enter into talks with Hamas, maybe a future Nobel will be found. As long as we refuse to deal with them and isolate them the more enemies we will create.
Your view of the world into this good guy/bad guy place is really entertaining on a blog but terrorfying when it is so typical of your leaders. Hopefully they will wake up soon and change their ways and become more understanding of international affairs and their own dounle standards. As for you, I won't hold my breath waiting for you to see the bigger (and uglier) picture.
"Fred. Is there anything wrong in the world that is not directly linked to The USSR?"
- Of course there is. However, just imagine how much better this planet might be if the Soviet Union did not spend decades supporting and creating repressive regimes (like North Korea). Even today you have Russia and China backing countries that govern with little concern for the populations they rule over. It makes life easier for them to have Russia as a big brother to hide behind. And that is one reason to bring about the crimes of the Soviet Union. Russia has never accepted them and by default has never instituted any changes to ensure that they never behave the same way in the future. This is something that happens in the US all the time. One bad night in Abu Graib, years of flogging is the result.
"How is the US support for Egypt (for making peace with Israel) and Saudi (keep the regime happy and get the oil you need) in anyway linked to The USSR?"
- See this Here Cached link. (Actual link "Egypt - FOREIGN MILITARY ASSISTANCE")
"It has NOTHING to do with foreign aid. You know that so don't treat me like an idiot."
- Sorry, but during the cold war, foreign aid was how your bought the support of other countries. Same for now.
"I also read your take on Hamas and Gaza with interest. Like many in The US, you don't get. As long as you promote democracy and try to spread it across the globe you can't pick and chose when to follow it. As simplistic as it seems, Hamas were democratically elected so support them."
- Go read my post again. They had an election, good. They decided to elect HAMAS, a known terrorist organization, fine. But that does not mean that the US has to give them a great big kiss and offer them whatever they want. We have our own democratic government that decided to support the process and celebrate the conclusion of their peaceful election and instead of declaring the Government criminal and illegitimate, they recognized it and refused to provide it aid. There is no requirement to provide support. The Palestinians knew what they were voting for and the implications of a HAMAS Government. As my post stated, not our problem. Anyway, the US is one country. Let the rest of the world help them. As for Arafat, he was a criminal and thief. (No matter, there are actors on both sides trying to ensure no settled peace.)
"Your view of the world into this good guy/bad guy place is really entertaining on a blog but terrorfying when it is so typical of your leaders."
- This is a world of gray and this is one of the biggest problems in this planet. By never declaring anything bad, nothing gets changed. Is what the Government is doing in Zimbabwe bad? Is Sudan's actions in Darfur bad? Is Iran's nuclear program bad? Is North Korea detonating a nuke while their population starve bad? Is Russia's radioactive poisoning stunt bad? As it so happens, this blog's first post dealt with the whole painting the planet gray issue:
Seeing things in Black and white instead of in shades of gray.
Thanks for your input. Somehow we are on the same side. Yet here we argue. The sad thing is that there is no arguing on the other side. Take a softer stance on the world's problems. However, I don't see that working with some of the more problematic nations. They take our lack of pressure as a green-light to operate as before.
The US, Australia, Canada, UK are not the problem. They can be the driving force to a better planet, but that requires honest brokers on the other side.
FredFry, you're a joke. The USSR had it's problems, none of which you seem to realize. Instead, you focus on the typical right wing misconceptions such as human rights. The base of Communism is no more and no less than granting basic human rights to everyone, not just those that can afford it, services such as free food, education, healthcare, culture. The US has a different concept, which you're probably familiar with. Both nations defended their views in whatever way they could!!
Do I need to remind you of every single war the US has participated in? Chile, Nicaragua, Cuba, Vietnam, Iraq, Afganistan, Korea?
Human rights?
I guess the people of Nagasaki and Hiroshima weren't really humans.
Repression? When I read American crap about Tianamen Square I feel like laughing, because of a little incident like the Kent State shootings. Funny huh? That's democracy right there!
Persecution? What about the House of Un-American Activities? That's such a democratic thing, clearly respecting everyone's beliefs and personal opinions.
It's time to drop that narrow-sighted perspective of yours. The USSR made it's mistakes but it was no empire of evil. In fact, the US is closer to that description and the US still exists.
"The base of Communism is no more and no less than granting basic human rights to everyone, not just those that can afford it, services such as free food, education, healthcare, culture."
- To everyone eh? In the USSR, I would have been sent to Siberia and worked to death for writing this list. Oddly enough, you would have been sent there too simply for reading it.
- and you did not get these things for free. You were expected to work. Elsewhere in my blog I note that people were sent to the Gulag for not working good enough or for simply being late. Being 15 minutes late to work was a crime and people were sent to Siberia as punishment.
Your comment is the funniest and saddest thing I have read this week. The Soviet Union murdered millions and is only comparable to Nazi Germany in terms of its brutality against man. the fact that the compare the Soviet Union to the US is a good illustration of your ignorance.
Not only that, but what the hell was your point here:
"The USSR had it's problems, none of which you seem to realize. Instead, you focus on the typical right wing misconceptions such as human rights. The base of Communism is no more and no less than granting basic human rights to everyone, not just those that can afford it,"
- so you criticize me for writing about Soviet abuses of human rights and then without even taking a breath claim that communism was all about human rights. What the hell? If that was it, my post is all the more relevance since they couldn't handle that one issue.
- The US eventually withdrew from Europe and Asia after WWII. the Soviets didn't. Big difference there sporto.
Stating that "The USSR had it's problems" is like stating that World War II was a misunderstanding.
My suggestion to you is to stick to writing about TV shows, although I have not read any of your posts so it could be that you suck at that too, but at least that's harmless.
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